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FP/ muneca question
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8436		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  mikev [ Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:38 pm ]
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I have some free time waiting till i finally set up my shop and figured now is as good a time as any to learn FP. I have a carved top I went a bit thin on that will work as my test supject along with a walnut back that is jointed and cut out but I never got it carved...The walnut i will seal with system 3 epoxy, the spruce,, not.. My thoughts were to use the Zinser(sp) sanding sealer as my shellac. In making up the muneca is it important that the "gut" of it be wool. Will cotton "t" shirt work as well..
Mike
Author:  letseatpaste [ Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:48 pm ]
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In the Brune class we used cheese cloth for the inner part of the pad, and 100% linen cloth wrapped around it.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:52 pm ]
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You want a natural porous fabric that allows the shellac to melt a flow out easily. Wool is my preference but 100 cotton cheese cloth will do fine. Your outer pad should be lint free. I prefer well worn muslin linen, but most any linen will do. If using new linen, cut to shape with pinking shears to avoid fraying ends, wash and dry at lest three times before using. This releases stiffening agent that was applied to new fabrics. A soft outer pad works much better than a stiff outer pad because the fibers have loosened up and allow better shellac flow.
Author:  Mark Tripp [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:14 am ]
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I'm a novice FPer, but on advice from Michael in another thread I switched my outer covering from old T-shirt material to muslin... HUGE difference. For the inner pad, I use cleaned and carded wool fiber from the local spinning shop - Eight bucks for a lifetime supply.

-MarkMark Tripp38974.3928240741
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:20 am ]
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What is muslin guys, where do i find that?
Author:  SStallings [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:23 am ]
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At any fabric store.
Author:  Mark Tripp [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:23 am ]
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From Wikipedia:

Muslin is a type of finely-woven cotton fabric, introduced to Europe from the Middle East in the 17th century. It was named for the city where it was first made, Mosul in what is now Iraq.

Your local fabric shop should have it Serge...

-Mark
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:38 am ]
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Thanks Stephen and Mark!
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:15 am ]
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Thanks to Michael P. I also found Muslin to be far superior to T-shirt material. I did not wash out the muslin material prior to using, however. I'll try that next time.

I really like this finish but be prepared for a learning curve that requires a lot of practice. After one completed guitar, I still have a long way to go before I'll be completely satisfied.
Author:  CarltonM [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:58 am ]
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Mike, if you use the Zinsser product, be sure it's their Seal Coat and not their other "sanding sealer" shellac. The Seal Coat is dewaxed.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:05 am ]
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Mike I use the Zinsser's Seal Coat for most of my French polish processes and it works great. It is very close to a 50% amber-50% extra blonde mix. This renders a very vintage hue (very slight amber tint). However if what you are going for is no added tinting then I would mix my own 100% extra blonde from flakes.MichaelP38974.6297916667
Author:  mikev [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:19 am ]
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thanks for all the replys guys... For this time I will use cotton inerts and an old t shirt for the outer since this is purely practice. Too lazy to go to the fabric store.
Carlton thanks for the reminder to use the seal coat,, i knew it had to be wasx free.
MichaelP, I remember reading in a post that you recommended the zinsser seal coat, i figure you've done this since you were what, about 3yrs old, you have to know a thing or two .
The walnut has been sanded and has seal of syst 3 curing at his moment.. I'm sure i'll have more questions as we procede..
Mike
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:40 am ]
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Not quite that young but I have been doing it a while. Longe before Zinsser's Seal Coat was even thought of
Author:  A Peebels [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:12 pm ]
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Please forgive me for being ignorant, but why does the shellac need to be dewaxed? What happens if You use the wrong stuff?

Thanks

Al
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:23 pm ]
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The muslin that you will find in our fabric stores is cotton, not linen. It is almost always 100% cotton. You can usually find muslin at Walmart or Kmart. Its an oatmeal color.

Linen comes in a couple of varities, pure, cotton blend and nylon blend. It is hard to find 100% around here without having to donate a kidney to fund it. I have a few sources for linen if anyone is in need.
Author:  letseatpaste [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:38 pm ]
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I couldn't find 100% linen at any local fabric stores, but I found some on eBay at a reasonable price.
Author:  mikev [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:33 pm ]
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Al, your guitar will keep slipping out of your hands sorry its late, I have no clue really..
Mike
Author:  mikev [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:30 pm ]
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ok, just found this on the net,, not sure if its the only reason, but,,,
"You should be sure to use a dewaxed shellac , because it is more resistant to moisture than regular shellac."

Ok, i also just found that the wax could cause adhesion problems if you top coat with another finish. Isn't the net a wonderfull place.mikev38975.1209722222
Author:  Mark Tripp [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:53 pm ]
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My guess is you don't need linen. Pure linen is made from flax fiber, not cotton. Muslin works prefectly, and is dirt cheap. For four bucks I got enough for 20 - 30 coverings.

-Mark
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:56 pm ]
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Wax will act as a barrier not allowing the oil to rise to the surface. It will also not allow any other finish to adhere to the shellac
Author:  jhowell [ Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:41 pm ]
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E-Bay is a great source for linen. I managed to snag three used, but laundered linen table cloths for a $5.00 bid. Pretty much a lifetime supply of 4" squares.
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:37 pm ]
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[QUOTE=jhowell] E-Bay is a great source for linen. I managed to snag three used, but laundered linen table cloths for a $5.00 bid. Pretty much a lifetime supply of 4" squares.[/QUOTE]

There ya go, and they are even broken in for you.   
Author:  Colin S [ Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:04 pm ]
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I buy my muneca materials from Axminster (no use to you if your in the US!) but it is a well washed cotton cloth outer material which seems to be recycled bed linen from commercial laundries. The filler is cotton waste from the weaving industry. I have alwasy had very good results with this material, and as a bag of each is enough to last for a hundred guitars or so I don't think I'll change.

Oh, when French polishing around pre-glued bridges (or necks) on lutes etc I use a piece of pointed felt as the filler so that I can polish accurately into the corners.

Colin
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:56 am ]
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Great tip Colin, thanks!
Author:  CarltonM [ Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:05 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Colin S]Oh, when French polishing around pre-glued bridges (or necks) on lutes etc I use a piece of pointed felt as the filler [/QUOTE]
How do you train it to point?

Nice idea!
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